As you know Dr. Marvin Christensen resigned in disgust telling the community that the district is failing the children and that the board is fractured and unfocused.
Maricopa County Superintendent of Schools Sandra Dowling put out a call to fill the vacant seat. The county hoped to have the new CCUSD governing board member seated by the beginning of July.
We have heard that the search is not going well. Few to none may have applied for the opening. There are rumors that Ms. Dowling has pulled packets on those who applied to run for the governing board elections this fall. Apparently the leading candidate to fill the vacancy is Mark Warren. Mr. Warren is a former governing board member and president. Mr. Warren is listed currently as board co-chair of Cave Creek Support Our Students (CCSOS). To further this speculation it was noticed that Mr. Warren spoke at a recent board meeting and CCSOS is ramping up its activities in preparation for the fall.
While we have nothing against Mr. Warren, we would be disappointed to get more of the same on the governing board.
Maricopa County Superintendent of Schools Sandra Dowling put out a call to fill the vacant seat. The county hoped to have the new CCUSD governing board member seated by the beginning of July.
We have heard that the search is not going well. Few to none may have applied for the opening. There are rumors that Ms. Dowling has pulled packets on those who applied to run for the governing board elections this fall. Apparently the leading candidate to fill the vacancy is Mark Warren. Mr. Warren is a former governing board member and president. Mr. Warren is listed currently as board co-chair of Cave Creek Support Our Students (CCSOS). To further this speculation it was noticed that Mr. Warren spoke at a recent board meeting and CCSOS is ramping up its activities in preparation for the fall.
While we have nothing against Mr. Warren, we would be disappointed to get more of the same on the governing board.
Will many come out of woodwork with liability to worry about? Not to mention that it is a huge job.
ReplyDeletehoneymom
CCUSDWatch, this commentary is not completely true; weren't there quite a few people applying for the position?
ReplyDeleteIf none of you want Mark Warren, as you stated, are any of you going to apply for the job? You can't tell me that ALL of you are affiliated with the school district. Besides doesn't that rule go out the window since Member Clancy's brother works at the high school?
Hi June 30, 2008 10:32 AM,
ReplyDeleteWe never said this was true, just rumor and speculation, which we clearly labeled as such.
The rule is is you or spouse cannot work for the district.
According to the county...
Q. What are the qualifications for becoming a Governing Board member?
A. A person who is a registered voter of this state and has been a resident of the school district for one year immediately preceding the day of election is eligible for election to the office of governing board member.
No employee of a school district or the spouse of such employee may hold membership on a governing board of a school district by which such employee is employed. A.R.S. § 15-421.
I think it's interesting that CCUSDWatch stated having Mr. Warren on the board would be more "of the same". Doesn't the CCUSDWatch think that by adding the three new Christopher Verde board members something unusual and a new perspective to the mundane mix was added? From my perspective they had to learn alot about a new district, the board members and the community in a short time period. From what I have read in their bios, two of the members have children and the other a broad education background.
ReplyDeleteWhat I think speaks loudly is the fact that many employees of CCUSD are leaving with a very bad taste in their mouth. They are sour on the district and are behind the wall that a lot of us are trying to change. This to me says that this district does need an overhaul.
ReplyDeleteWe need to be proactive though. How, no clue since no one on here wants to form a committee to start change in the district. Some of you have great ideas but are you willing to implement them?
?"Doesn't the CCUSDWatch think that by adding the three new Christopher Verde board members something unusual and a new perspective to the mundane mix was added?"
ReplyDeleteNot really. Did you notice any significant changes?
Dear CCUSD Watch,
ReplyDeleteOther than new blood, how do you think we as a community can work together to bring about change on the boe?
honeymom
Dear Bloggers/Watchers and all others:
ReplyDeleteI can tell you that Mark Warren won't be appointed the next board member. I know this because his name was not submitted to be considered as an appointee.
I know this because I am Mark Warren; and short of an "Immaculate Appointment", it isn't going to happen.
I am seeking election to the board in the fall, but I did not submit my name to Supt. Dowling to consider me as a replacement for Dr. Christensen.
I've been reading your blogs for the past several months and while I don't agree with many of the things said, I enjoy the discourse and exchange of ideas.
There have been many good points raised by your group and the bloggers who regularly post on this site.
That being said if you would like to ask my positions on many of the issues raised, feel free. I will gladly answer your questions. I'm not familiar with how to set up a link on this, so if you want to post the questions on the blog, I will gladly respond.
Thanks for your time
Mark Warren
Mr. Warren,
ReplyDeleteNice to see you willing and ready to try to address the issues the district faces.
As a former student and a curious citizen, I wonder what your current opinion on the state of the district is and what you would do as a board member to steer it in the direction you think would best serve the students and teachers who comprise the most important part of the entire system.
Jeff Tully
Dear Mr. Warren,
ReplyDeleteThank you for your post.
I am curious to your position on reconfiguring the grade spans in the schools and what solution for CSHS overcrowding you think is best.
honeymom
Hi Mr. Warren,
ReplyDeleteThank you for your post.
As we said, we had heard that the county is looking at those who pulled packets to run in the fall to evaluate them as candidates to fill the current vacancy. Had you requested a packet to run in the fall? We are not sure if this is true or has happened yet.
Our question is simple. It is the same one we asked the administration and board who dodged it.
Issue: The governing board and administration of Cave Creek Unified School District has been mired in so much conflict, infighting, and empire building that the district has lost its focus on its number one job: the academic achievement of its students. So much so that one of the governing board members recently quit and stated that the district is failing the children.
Question: When is the administration and governing board going to stop all the infighting and what is it doing to improve the academic achievement of its students so that CCUSD students exceed academically. 'Excelling' based on weakened state standards is not good enough for the affluent and well educated area that we live in.
CCUSDWatch,
ReplyDelete1. If the CSHS campus is expanded with the SFB funds, shouldn't this eleviate the overcrowding problem?
2. Wasn't the K-6 reconfig. brought to the attention of the board by many parents as a petition because they wanted it? At the board meeting it sounded like several of the board members really wanted this new configuration as well.
3. Wasn't there a board member who mentioned they would like to see a K-8 academy like a Cheyenne Traditional school similar to what the Scottsdale district has? Doesn't Cheyenne have a very rigorous academic program with a waiting list?
4. A board member mentioned that Desert Sun ES is implementing the Core Knowledge cirriculum this year. Isn't this the same academic program as some of the Paradise Valley elementary schools that score so high on their AIMS testing?
Dear "July 1, 2008 10:13 AM",
ReplyDeleteHi, thanks for your post. We have covered some of what you are asking
Here are some quick answers...
1. Yes. Is there even really overcrowding with the empty BMES sitting there?
2. Not sure about the K-6. ICANOPEN does say this will immediately put the elementary schools at full capacity.
3. A Cheyenne would be great but why not make every school a Cheyenne? Our district is small enough and has uniform enough demographics that this should be doable. Unfortunately, it looks like the administration wants a fine arts or language immersion academy not a Cheyenne. We want 5 Cheyennes.
4. Core Knowledge at DSES is a start. Why stop at one school? Is this a pilot? Did we miss the announcement of this pilot? Is DSES really ditching its current curriculum and implementing the Core Knowledge Sequence?
Having a site visit to Grayhawk and having the PTO at DSES sell CK books does not a curriculum make.
Additionally, implementing Core Knowledge with Everyday Math is bad form and could stop them from becoming an Official CK school.
Of course DSES isn't even listed as friend of CK yet. Can somebody tell them to fill out the form!
However, DSES needs something! We all know that the teachers are excellent, but curriculm is lacking compared to SUSD and PVUSD. Not sure with a new principal at DSES and not having experience with Core Knowledge, how effective this implementation will be. Hope this an opportunity that is for real that will provide additional rigor for the students not just a way for administration to say we have core knowledge just like so and so does...
ReplyDeleteI am sure that Mr. Warren would be
ReplyDeleteexcellent, but we need real change
here...not just more of the same!
Voters have the opportunity to
vote in 3 new board members..if you
don't like the way things are going, you can all change that with
the November election. I believe that the only two board members to
stay are Member Clancy and Ms. Reese.
Does it really matter at this point since there will be an election in November?
ReplyDeleteDear 10:13A:
ReplyDeleteI don't remember hearing anything about the petition even though I was on a PTO Board. Do you know when it might have been addressed by the board so I can read the minutes? I've read most of the 2008 minutes and don't remember seeing it.
My concern is that the numbers of parents who want it may be statiscally insignificant in relation to the numbers of people in the district who would need to vote on the neccesary expenditure to make it work. I am hearing plenty of people sounding confused and grumbling about the plan. It doesn't bode well.
honeymom
You can read about the K-6 petition here...
ReplyDeleteWork Study/Special Meeting of the Governing Board
Tuesday, May 22, 2007
According to the North Scottsdale Independent, the money has already been allocated for K-6, even before ONE meeting of the NEW and IMPROVED committee.
Thank you.
ReplyDeleteThe parent that led the petition drive would have been zoned for a different school than we are. It would have been nice for parents at the other schools to have been involved in this decision before the district steamrolled full ahead.
What committe does the statement "this committee" in regards to the cap enrollment plan, refer to?
ReplyDeleteI can't find any committe listed on the ccusd website that has minutes pertaining to the decisions being reported on here.
honeymom
Mark,
ReplyDeleteWhere did you go! We'd like to hear some answers and your positions on these issues.
Don't turn in to a typical board member who hides behind the "We are unable to comment based on advice of district attorneys".
I'm back. I didn't get a chance to read the blog yesterday, so I apologize for not answering some of the questions more quickly. (To the last blogger, I don't even have an attorney I could hide behind.)
ReplyDelete1. To one of the first questions I think from the CCUSD Watch: I did pull a packet to run for election to the school board in November, and I am currently collecting signatures to get on the ballot. I did not submit my name to be appointed as a replacement. I hear that 4 to 5 different people did submit their names to Dr Dowling's office. As I joked in response the other night for her to pull my name would be the "Immaculate Appointment."
2. How do I feel about K-6 Alignment?
I favor it for many reasons, but right now that doesn't matter. The community should have more input before the district moves forward with this kind of change. The earliest that the district would be able to implement would probably be 2009-10 school year, there is plenty of time for discussion/public hearings. Based on the studies the Long Range Planning Committee did last year, the elementaries have space to accomodate, but would need to add some additional staff
3. Overcrowding at CSHS -
Now that the district has new guidance from the School Facilities Board, expanding and remodeling Cactus Shadows seems to be the new plan. It would have been nice to get new facilities and remodel/repurpose the current CSHS, but without the bonds and overrides, a separate new high school would have been underdeveloped and lacking of some of our stronger programs. We would have diluted some really great departments at CSHS to staff the new school.
4. Just a quick comment on Core Knowledge: I am a big fan of the program and a member of my family actually teaches at a Core Knowledge school in Colorado and trains new Core Knowledge schools,but once again, I think the community should be better educated about it and have their chance for input. Based on past experience on the board with Curriculum adoptions, I could see where there could be some colorful hearings on why or why not to adopt CK as the district model.
5. How to get the Board and District to stop their infighting? Could I just try to part the Red Sea? Just kidding, I have been attending a lot of the board meetings for the past 2 years since I lost in 2006, and you have some very dynamic and passionate people on that board. You can't force someone to like another and you can't force them to work together. It is important for the board to be involved in the policy making of the district and the enforcement of policy and law where appropriate, but you need to not cross over into micromanaging the classroom. If the board would focus on what is best for the student and the teachers/staff; the decisions would be easier. The Board meetings had several months where there was no mention of students or the classrooms. Board members filibustered the meetings by messing with the agenda and making eleventh hour requests for changes. The question every member should ask when looking at their board packet and each agenda item, "What is this going to do to help our students or staff?" If you can't answer that, then maybe it should be a lower priority for discussion.
The ultimate goal of the district should be to provide a great opportunity for the students to succeed and the staff to learn and grow. Despite what happens in the contentious board meetings, there are a lot of people working hard to help our kids, in the classroom, in the lunchroom, on the bus, etc. When we bash the district we need to keep in mind that there are many people trying their best to make a difference. It seems that many members of your group work for the district; and I'm sure they don't like to hear how bad our district is when they are busting their backs for our kids.
I'm sure I'm missing some of the questions so I will finish this post and login again later.
Mark Warren
Part 2 I'm back
ReplyDeleteResponse to Jeff Tully - First of all you have had some interesting posts. I know you aren't too enthralled with the district right now, but I think based on your posts you didn't fall behind your contemporaries at school.
I think the best way to help the students and teachers/staff, put them first. If everybody would make that their focus and work to help ALL students succeed, the possibilities would be endless.
I know a great deal of the discussions on this blog have been about challenging the gifted, but there are several groups of students; the Gifted, those who have Challenges, the average students looking to go on to college or tech school; and the Average Students not looking to go to school but looking to go to work after high school.
We need to serve and challenge all of the groups.
CCUSD Watch: The Excelling labels - I know you don't like them, but they are a way that our schools are judged in this state. We could be in the situation like Roosevelt or others, where the failing ratings are forcing the state to take them over. Do I think we could be doing better on everything? Yes! I want our students to excel on AP, SAT, ACT, NMSQT,etc. I'm a believer in the Kaizen philosophy - Continuous improvement. We may have done well today, but we need to do better tomorrow. I would love to see all of the students exceeding the state standards. It would be awesome if we had all students who take an AP Course, get a 3 or higher. I could ramble on about this but know that I think standards are a moving bar and once you cross one, you need to raise it.
I think I covered everything so far, if not feel free remind me.
I will try to check in tomorrow night.
Mark Warren
CCUSD Watch said, "We want 5 Cheyennes."
ReplyDeleteReally?
You've stated on this blog that your ideal school is Candeo. Mind you, this is a school that has not yet served one child, but proposes to use Core Knowledge. It will be a k-6 charter. Your own words have this being your "perfect school".
Now you are saying you want "5 Cheyennes" for CCUSD. Cheyenne is not Core Knowledge. They use Saxon math and Spalding language. It's a k-8 public school.
Why would you settle for anything less than perfect? You don't want CCUSD to settle, yet you've chosen to settle for less some reason. Why?
Cheyenne appears to be a fantastic school. You didn't select it as your perfect school, but it's clearly working very well for many kids. Given their success, have you considered why Scottsdale hasn't decided to switch their entire district over to this model?
Perhaps they know there isn't one perfect curriculum because there are many different children with many different needs. Maybe it's not as much about the curriculum as you'd like to think. Maybe it's more about choice - choice of what's right for each child and family.
Hi Mr. Warren,
ReplyDeleteThank you for your responses.
We find that your ideas are full of platitudes; put the kids first, more community input, continuous improvement, we need to serve all the children. We have been hearing these same bromides from the current board and administration.
We understand that these are you first posts but we would hope that over the coming days and months you could expand and expound on them to give us firm positions on how to implement real change.
We do wholeheartedly agree with your statement that, "Board meetings had several months where there was no mention of students or the classrooms". We have stated this ourselves and it was part of the impetus to start this blog.
"Maybe it's more about choice - choice of what's right for each child and family."
ReplyDeleteReally. Really. So how does my child opt out of Everyday Math. Which district school does he attend for that to happen?
You also seem to be taking things too literal to try and catch us in lie.
Why SUSD stopped at one Cheyenne, ask them. It seems foolish to us. They cannot even meet the demand in their own district for these seats.
SUSD and PVUSD are tremendously different districts with a wide range of demographics that we do not have.
This district is the perfect size that if they implemented the right programs, the district could rival all schools; public, private, or charter, yet we settle for excelling and Everyday Math.
CCUSD Watch wrote, "Board meetings had several months where there was no mention of students or the classrooms". We have stated this ourselves and it was part of the impetus to start this blog.
ReplyDeleteYet when the district focuses on children or teachers with awards or school focus nights you balk at that too.
Again, your focus is whatever you want/need it to be at the moment. I don't need to catch you in a lie. You are indecisive enough to cause your own demise.
Dear Watch,
ReplyDeleteIf Everyday Math is the great evil that you would have everybody believing, than why did the Greenwich, Connecticut school district (plenty of wealth there) just opt to change over to it?
All I heard when I moved here 3 years ago, was how much better East Coast schools are than here. Yet, in my former home state of Connecticut (which is well regarded on the education front) EM is extremely popular and is used by many of the top districts including the one we moved from.
That being said, I am open minded to change if it is not working for enough kids. But, I would like to hear from more of the classroom teachers before making that decision. I think the big weakness with the program is that there are some parents who have trouble with it and the program is really dependent on parents working with kids on some of it.
From what I've seen of Saxon Math, it looks worth further examination. I'm less impressed with Singapore Math. I'm looking at it from the viewpoint of a parent of kids, one of whom freaks out from drilling. Singapore math would be a disaster for her.
honeymom
Dear Mr. Warren,
ReplyDeleteYou mention studies that LRPC did last year re: the elementary schools. I don't believe they are posted on the CCUSD93 website and that would truly be helpful.
Icanopen has been on the HSPC and spouse has been on the LRPC (I believe this is the correct order?). Icanopen feels that we are close to hitting capacity as several of the schools.
LMES was just shy of 600 kids last year. I believe capacity is 650. Plus, with the development across the street of 300 homes and in Section 16 of 800 homes (both zoned for LMES), I have to believe that it will hit capacity soon.
I am not against the k-6. I understand its benefits But, reconfiguring schools is a huge undertaking. I don't see how it can be done without building at the various schools. And, I don't see how that can be done without more money. I think that you have an electorate that is unwilling to vote for more capital expenditure at this time. And, frankly, I am much more concerned that we get the money when we need it - i.e. the k-3 override, school repairs, reinstitution of some of the programs that suffered with the last budget cut (i.e. orchestra), reinstatement of teachers that were cut. It would also be nice to have paper in the schools again and to be able to spend more money on textbooks so that we could have the curriculum improvements that CCUSD Watch wants.
I don't mind the platitudes, your heart is in the right place. But, I wish that the board would get to know the electorate here better, prioritize, and put things through that might actually stand a chance of passing. I will be watching the candidates to see if they a) are knowledgeable about education b) are familiar with the challenges of passing bonds in this area and c) how they approach those challenges.
honeymom
Hi honeymom,
ReplyDeleteThere is a budding journalist that would like to speak to you.
Her email address is enorris1@asu.edu
She is an ASU journalism student looking for someone in the PTA and with kids in the district.
Thank you. I don't know if I am the most active pto person in this district, but I will try to contact her and put her in touch with the right person if I feel that someone else should talk with her.
ReplyDeletehoneymom
Hey Took a few days off for the holiday, and see there were a few more questions/concerns for me to address.
ReplyDeleteBefore I forget, the reason board minutes aren't available immmediately, is they have to be voted on and approved at the following meeting. For example, the meeting on July 8th, the minutes will be taken, and the board will approve them at the next meeting. After that they post them.
It is a parliamentary procedure the district follows, and it allows the members to review and challenge anything in the minutes before they are officially published.
I know some of my broad views sound like rhetoric. Elected officials say they want safer streets, better healthcare, better education etc. When they get elected they get mired in minutiae and passing legislation that does little for the general welfare. I think getting back to some core basics could help our district. Focus on the most important things - our students and our staff. Everything else will follow.
When I say put the students first I truly believe that. If we would do everything we can to improve the learning opportunities for all of our students, we would be doing what is expected of a school district. I agree with the CCUSD Watch's opinion that we should be far exceeding standards of all sorts in our district. We are very fortunate to live in a district like ours. My dream would be to have excelling on the AIMS test as our baseline for all students. Kind of like an entrance exam, all of our students should be able to exceed those standards. That being said, we have students of all capabilities and interests. Not all will learn the same way or at the same pace; but if we make a standard for all to exceed then we let the learning professionals develop the plan.
I'm pretty self-confident but I would never be so arrogant as to tell a teacher how to teach their students.
It's my goal to help develop and maintain clear policy and expectations for all; turn that over to the professionals, give them the tools and support necessary and let them do their jobs. I know each teacher knows their students better than any board member ever could.
I think from sitting in the board meetings lately, the educators don't feel they are getting the support they need. Too much focus on stuff and not on the kids. I see the administrators and teachers struggling due to the infighting of the board and the eleventh hour changes to their proposals. I don't think the board should ever rubber stamp everything that comes across their agenda, but when a school site works hard to do what it feels is right for their students and the board overrides it, I think the board is getting into micromanagement. A little more time needs to be spent hearing from the people actually in the classroom and at the schools.
Community Input - Your website, and the survey(I know you didn't like the survey)both revealed that the board needs to do gather more input from the community. I think you do this through town hall meetings. Even if you have to schedule a meeting at Harold's and let people speak their minds. Icanopen was at the meeting when I spoke regarding the potential new plan for the High School. The survey is nice, but I feel that to get the word out go out and speak to the constituents. An example of that would be to do several meetings througout the district. For sure we need to do a meeting near the Troon Area to explain the current ideas on the High School. That would allow the people over there to get more info and hopefully provide some input. They are now part of this district and we need to include them.
Another example of getting the word out would be to explain Core Knowledge. I think if you ask a good segment of our parents, they wouldn't know or understand the basic tenets of CK. It has great value, but if you don't create that value in our parents they won't see a need to consider changing to it.
HONEYMOM
The information regarding space availability that I referred to was presented at a Board meeting back in 2007 by Mr Murphy, Mr Abram and Mr Miller. I couldn't find it in my notes from the Board meetings. They presented a slide that all of our Elementaries had space available that could possibly be used for another grade. I don't remeber the exact number of classrooms at each site. A board member had asked for a space utilization report. I think because the discussions were already being kicked around about k-6. If I can find it in the Board Minutes I will direct you to the date in their archives.
I've probably said enough but will continue to check in.
Thanks for letting me speak my mind
Mark Warren
Mr. Warren, ahh spoken like a true politician (kidding). Perhaps you could elaborate about Core Knowledge and what a great academic program it is. I have friends at Grayhawk who rave about this type of teaching. I know Desert Sun will begin this year with CK. I am all for a great program at this school. I think the parents will buy into it as well if they understood it better.
ReplyDelete"Before I forget, the reason board minutes aren't available immmediately, is they have to be voted on and approved at the following meeting"
ReplyDeleteIf this was the case minutes would be posted 2 week later, not 2-3 months.
Additionally, there is no reason why a summary should not be posted the next day or two for every meeting (especially considering we have a PIO staff), and the slide decks from every presentation should be posted.
Response to July 5th 2:38
ReplyDeleteI will give you my opinion on why I think that Core Knowledge is a great program to consider, but I am no expert on the subject.
The way my friends and family who teach in this curriculum explained it is that it is more sequential than traditional curriculum. It is more defined for each year and more regimented over the years. In kindergarten you get x and y, then in first you take over from y and go to z. Here is a link that will explain it far better than I can: http://www.coreknowledge.org/CK/about/K-2glance.htm See the progression of the World History and Geography, now compare that with the state standards, http://www.ade.state.az.us/standards/sstudies/articulated/SSIntroduction.pdf. It complies with those requirements and actually gets to some subject matter in earlier grades. One of the other great things about this curriculum is it's balance between the arts and the sciences. I think parents like Honeymom will like that it gives equal attention to these subjects in all grades. It seems like you are really interested, so you should talk to the experts. Speak with the teachers and administrators at Greyhawk. Then go visit with the team at Desert Sun. I know they have been busy learning about CK and I think they've been working with the team from Greyhawk.
Mark Warren
Just the Numbers
ReplyDeleteCCUSD has all Elementary/Middle schools Desired Capacity at 650.
I’m sure that LMES and BMES could support a few more than that approx 100-150.
Enrollment per school
06/07 07/08
BMES 575 609
DSES 458 463
DWES 637 465
HTES 521 454
LMES 581 629
Please note that 07/08 numbers do not include 129 out of district students placed in these schools.
Now take the 640 6th graders divided by 5 that’s 128 added to each school.(for a 9th grade Academy)or divide by 6 = 106 (if going with a K-8 Academy)
And yes I there will be a reduction in the Elementary schools if the BOE decides on K-8
Now to the Middle Schools
Presented to the board at the 1/08/08 meeting. 6.4
"Dr. Beazley goes 240-240, etc; although there is sufficient room to handily host 900 students at
that school. DAMS operates the same, 720 programmatically driven."
The school he is speaking of is STMS
Enrollment per School
06/07 07/08
STMS 684 711
DAMS 691 662
Please note that 07/08 numbers do not include 38 out of district students placed in these schools
Now the Math 711+662+38-460(6th)= 957 students at STMS.
+/- for K-8.
The problem comes in Enrollment into a K-8 Academy. How many parents/student's will want there students going there? At the parent level you will have parents that do not want there children with the older students. At the 7-8 student level they will want to be with the bulk of there friends at STMS.
Seems like icanopen has a pretty good handle on the numbers so I won't even go there.
ReplyDeleteThe problem that I am beginning to recognize in the district, and this may be the driving force behind a lot of the resentment towards it, is a real lack of communication.
For instance, when we lived in Connecticut and there was any type of major realignment planned, there were open meetings well advertised to the district before things went into committee. We seem to be missing that step here. I understand that there is research and thought behind the change, but there are many factors to be taken into consideration with any major realignment and a lot of us are scratching our heads and asking what is going on since we have not even been invited to comment on the plan.
Where I differ from CCUSD Watch, is that I don't go into this thinking that CCUSD has nefarious reasons for doing what it does. But, I do think in their enthusiasm for ideas they are sometimes putting the cart before the horse. Then they wind up wasting time spinning a lot of wheels without remembering that the community has to buy-in. Then, when the community has to vote at election time, the district cannot figure out why they don't have community support.
I strongly suggest that before committees be formed on the realignment, that the numbers be revisted and that a public meeting specifically addressing the realignment be held. Find out now if there is really the support for a realignment instead of at the polls.
BTW re: the minutes. It is taking over 60 days to post, which as another poster pointed out means that several meetings are going by before meeting minutes are approved. Also, I am under the understanding that even if unofficial, some record of the meeting is supposed to be made available via the internet within days of the meeting.
I'm not anti core knowledge. I just need to learn more about it. I know that some NYC Public Schools have turned to it, but it wasn't really used around us in the East Coast.
FYI, I'm actually a pretty open minded person. My background is in communications/marketing and as an involved parent I've decided to try to figure out why there is such a disconnect between the district and so much of its electorate. While I don't agree with CCUSD Watch on everything, it turns out this is an excellent forum to share ideas and better understand why the district isn't perceived better. I actually think that the district is doing really well when it comes to educating my children. I just want it to stay that way, get even better, and get more parents interested in voting in favor of its bonds.
honeymom
Dear Mr. Warren,
ReplyDeleteI believe the meeting that k-6 was discussed at was April 22, 2008 (there were some presentations of capacity before then and some public support for it before then).
Here are some excerpts that alarm me:
Elementary schools are kept at 650. The real size according to SFB says the schools could handle more even though the principals don’t think so.
Dr. Ashby’s opinion as to what is in the best interest of the kids. Dr. Burdick reported it is a difficult question because it
depends on the teachers. If we look at the research, although our students do well at all levels, there are issues with social and emotional behaviors and many parents want to keep their 6th grader in an elementary setting. With some challenges with space and social and emotional issues, she would want to go out to community to get input.
Member Christensen recommends Option 8 – maintain single a high school on north campus, expand and redesign existing CSHS to accommodate 2100 students; provide services of a world class high school. Leave the rest of the
district the way it is with the recognition, we will have to confront the over crowding at the middle school 5 years out.
Don’t have to make a decision tonight; may be postponing real issue.
Essentially, the principals had voiced concern over increasing capacity (which would be needed to go to k-6), Dr. Burdick suggested that we talk with the community, and Member Christiansen recognized that it was a big decision. Yet, there was hardly any discussion by the boe members, there has been no community meeting, Member Christensen has resigned, and yet here we go again - full steam ahead with committees on a plan that 200 hundred parents (aren't there several thousand parents in the district?) were enthused about.
In my old district, school realignment came up as a subject. The superintendant said "You don't want to go there," alluding to the difficulty of successfully realigning grade levels. While it might appear to be a great solution, we haven't done enough research or gotten enough parents to buy-in to guarantee its success. I see another bond doomed to failure.
honeymom
Dear Mark,
ReplyDeleteHere is how my old district would have handled an issue as large as realignment:
1) There were a lot of bias from boe members the night of the vote because they were relying on personal emotions, parental emotions, and two pieces of research in making their decision pro k-6. A board member, or administrator, should have been charged with interviewing the principals for their input, obtaining negative research for k-6 or positive research for k-5, or for obtaining research (both positive and negative) on the challenges of grade realignment. That research should have been presented at the next meeting.
2) At the next meeting, all research is discussed. At that point, the boe votes on whether to recommend presenting k-6 to the community. This is merely a recommendation for a commmunity presentation. The boe is to remain neutral on the subject until after community input is gathered.
3) The superintendant, along with staff or outside educational experts present the rationale for k6 to the commmunity. This should include presentation of research supporting, capacity, and budget implications. The boe needs to remain neutral still.
4) The meeting should take place at a time of day (i.e. a Saturday morning) that is sufficient for presentation and at least one hour of public commentary/q&a. It needs to be well advertised to the parents and perhaps the community at large.
5) Following this meeting, a regular meeting of the boe (or special meeting) primarily focused on this issue should be well advertised to the parents. Time for public input at the beginning of the meeting as is norm, followed by boe discussion of both the findings and significant public commentary. At this point, a vote should be taken by the boe. The boe will need to balance community issues with what is best for the greater good of the kids.
6) If k-6 gets the votes, then it goes to committees.
The fact that the boe skipped most of these steps is what I am talking about with putting the cart before the horse. It would be much better to know the issues upfront and make an educated decision then spend over a year preparing for a bond only to get it shot down again.
honeymom
Dear Honeymom,
ReplyDeleteYour thought process is very concise. I suggest you run for the governing board. I think the deadline to submit is the beginning of August. Even if you are a working mom, and I don't know if you are or not, there are other "moms" on the board that work and still make time to be on the board. I hope you consider this opportunity not just for your own children but those students in CCUSD.
Thank you 9:39A. I hope to be able to consider it in the future. Right now, I have a husband who has regular work meetings scheduled on many Tuesday evenings. While one of my children is technically old enough to watch the other, we minimize that because of some issues that she has.
ReplyDeleteBut, I will be getting more vocal in the district through letters and when I can attend, boe meetings.
honeymom
Reply to Honeymom:
ReplyDeleteI agree with the outline you have proposed for evaluating the change from K-5 to K-6.
Currently, the board hasn't taken an official vote to move forward with any of the options presented at the last meeting. They all expressed their opinions on the potential expansion of CSHS on the northern site, but haven't taken a vote. Based on their comments I think a vote for the Option 4 at least the High School portion is imminent.
When I spoke at that meeting I recommended the board host forums to better educate the community on the potential plan for the high school. I would argue that there still may be parents in the district who want a High School in the Southern end, and not fully understand the reasons for not building one there.
Ideally, if they vote to move forward with that, then they should begin with a process similar to what you outline.
I am all in favor of public hearings, that are more like the tax hearings we used to do here. You have a hearing or two and let the people have their input. The board listens and observes and that's it. I think this would be a must if the district is going to consider the k-6 option, as well as the 1 middle school option.
After you have the hearings, if there seems to be a desire by the community to consider k-6 then you turn it over to the principals and teachers to discuss. They are the ones who will have to deliver on this idea. They may also have to reorganize their sites and classrooms to accomodate the changes.
Gather the feedback from the hearings and the site teams and hold another open forum meeting with the board. Have all the info collected presented then let the board decide if they need to direct the adminstration to form a committee to collect financial and educational data. Kind of like a grand jury process, you collect the evidence and the testimony and decide if you proceed or not. These discussions could prove that the community isn't interested and that the district needs a different plan.
I would also advocate a similar process if the district were to consider switching the curriculum to Core Knowledge for all schools.
I have to say that there has been some great discussion on this blog. Some points I may not agree with but this forum has raised some interesting ideas.
Mark Warren
Thank you. It does seem like a done deal when they are calling for committees.
ReplyDeleteDo you have any idea if anyone on the boe is watching this website? I agree with you -while I often disagree with the positions that CCUSD Watch and others have on here it is providing an excellent forum. It seems like we need it.
honeymom
I feel at least one of the board members is Monitoring this site, and possibly posting Anonymously.
ReplyDeleteHey Mark could you contact me Via E-Mail.
Icanopen@hotmail.com
Thanks Icanopen. I am wondering how to make my process suggestion to the boe when I know that I can't make their next meeting. I really do think it is important for the board to involve the community now, before they take this realignment plan any further. I have some serious issues with the plan, which perhaps are easily answered, and want to make sure that they are heard.
ReplyDeletehoneymom
Honeymom
ReplyDeleteI have applied to be on the EMSPC, whether they allow me on there will be a different story. If they don’t I will be Attending those meetings any way’s. To collect information on what they are planning.
I agree with you, this should have been put forth to the Community FIRST.
I’m not sure if you know how this started, It started with a mother’s concern that her soon to be 6th graders. 4/10/2007 2.1 Unscheduled Public Appearances –
Ms. Donna Fusiara, 4306 East Desert Marigold, Cave Creek, AZ– She discussed her concerns and wishes for composition of the elementary schools. She has a 1st and 4th grader. Asked Board to consider changing our elementary schools to K-6 instead of K-5. Sixth graders are too young to be with middle schoolers. 5th graders at Desert Willow would like to stay at DW because they feel comfortable. Expectations of 6th graders is a lot. She wants to keep children sweet and innocent as long as possible. Students are treated differently at the elementary schools, more nurtured by the staff versus at middle school. Middle school teachers could be brought down to elementary and it would keep class sizes smaller. Believes there is room at each elementary school to keep 6th grade. She is speaking on behalf of other parents. What can they do to keep them safe? Feel elementary sites are very safe. Feels it is a win-win situation for the students to stay.
This is not a good enough reason for me for this already money strapped district, to be spending ten of millions of dollars. And how about the realization of going K-6 we would create a K-8 school wonder who she would feel about her 2nd grader going to school with 8th graders.
Dear Icanopen,
ReplyDeleteI read the comments of the parents who started this. I sympathize with their concerns having just transitioned one child to middle school and having another child transitioning in a year. But, I cannot believe what a can of worms has been opened with so little research done just because of raw emotions. Not to mention that there will be cost involved. Does the boe honestly think that by taking this to committee and coming up with a plan, that they can then shove down the throat of a reluctant electorate?
It is time for the boe to retrench and present for public opinion, obtain public buy-in first, before they waste a lot of peoples' time including their own and those of the parents on the committee. They may be gungho now, but if another bond goes down the tubes because they didn't do the work to justify it upfront, before it is on the ballot and they are prohibited from talking about it, they will regret the rush.
honeymom
Guess who?????? We now know!
ReplyDeleteWell, who?
ReplyDelete4:19p -
ReplyDelete???????????????
hm
I CannOpen,
ReplyDeleteI was just reading through this subject and thought I would comment. I was not at that meeting, but am well aware of that parent's concern and told her myself I would not sign her petition and that her reasoning was weak and inappropriate -- whether she likes it or not her own child will be an evil 7th or 8th grader one day...
My concerns are growing daily with this as I have heard NO DISCUSSION of some of the actual issues that will be faced.
First, I am a parent of one of those evil 8th graders and when my child was in middle school they NEVER interacted with the older students. They are kept separate in lunch, classes and classrooms. Last year when I would ask about one or another 6th grader my child knew from elementary school and how they were doing, my child answered. "Mom, you know I never see any 6th graders..."
The 6th grade teachers also are very aware of the maturity level of the students they teach and they work hard to prepare them for the next level of school.
Here are some questions I have not yet had answered; though I have asked some who should know and am awaiting a response...
1.) What is the expectation of the 6th grade teachers? Are they going to just teach single subjects if the schools become K-6? Some of those teachers have not taught more than one subject for many years? What kind of preparation or training is being offered to these teachers? What would that cost?
2.) Is the expectation that students will change classes in 6th grade like they will in 7th and 8th grade thus allowing teachers to keep their areas of expertise? If so...I don't think the numbers work...four core subjects now currently taught ... at most 3 classes on each grade level added at the schools...So now you would bring four teachers to the school to teach only three classes?
3.) Do you really think you can just add another grade to each school and not have to redistrict?
Just one more random comment to another poster's comment. SFB numbers are ridiculous. It is not just that the principals do not believe them it is because they do not even allow for the following of Federal requirements. SFB numbers count square footage with little or no regard to actual classroom layout or needs. In order to fill a school with SFB capacity there would be no special classrooms (i.e. art, music, etc.) and no special needs classrooms (some of which are required by Federal Law). The principals go by which rooms are full and where they have room to expand. It's not that they don't believe SFB numbers it is because they actually know their school layout and capacity..
Dear 11:47,
ReplyDeleteMy oldest started DAMS last year. You are right. They are very well segregated. I see all of the challenges that you mention.
We were tentative heading into middle school. It has been a good experience. The biggest differences for us have been the changing of the classrooms for different subjects (my child enjoys this) and the standard expectations for work. They are much stricter about homework, turning classroom work in, etc. That has been a bit of a challenge, but it is an important step in growing up.
hm
To clarify, the challenges that I speak of in the last post are not the challenges of ms. They are the challenges of reconfiguration.
ReplyDeletehm
This blog has moved to
ReplyDeletehttp://ccusdwatch.com
and is now part of
Tatum Central
Please continue the discussion there.